I’m getting ready to go the conference on Pornography and Pop Culture in Boston, and I mentioned that I was going there on an all-female listserv that I’m a member of. There was a small discussion of porn going on, but my letter was more of a “I’m going to be in town for this conference – I’d like to meet up with those of you who live there” kind of post (it’s a small list, and a lot of us have met up before). This is the reply someone posted:
“If you’re deadset against porn, read the study Linda Williams made. A real eye opener. I consider myself a feminist and a pro-pron. Actually I think it’s a given that I defend porn. Being anti-porn has its roots in catholic conservatism, in my opinion, a lot to do with the fact that women should not enjoy porn/sex.
That’s all I’ll say cause it’s a lot like religion: a war quickly ensues. 
“
There are so many things that infuriate me about this post, I don’t even know where to begin. More than anything, I am upset by the suggestion that being anti-porn is necessarily linked to bodily shame. My opposition to porn has absolutely nothing to do with the way I feel about my body or whether or not I enjoy sex. My opposition to porn has to do with the way it presents women, the violence it both enacts AND provokes/encourages, and the predatory nature of the industry. MY ISSUE, to be clear, has to do with the sexual victimization of women both in the production and consumption of pornography.
Also, I feel like the nature of her post is pretty arrogant. In calling pro-pornography studies “eye-opening,” she seems to be telling me that my opinion is pretty predictable and old-fashioned, and if only I learned about the liberating power of pornography I would truly come to understand feminism. It seems to me, however, that pornography embodies a lot of themes of catholic (and christian) history: hatred of women, the appropriation of women’s wealth, humiliation of women and the destruction of women’s bodies (just to name a few). But I’m the one stuck in a catholic, patriarchal mindset?
Some mildly graphic material to follow, so please click only if you feel alright about reading it.
My response to her was short and just mentioned that yeah, there ARE a lot of eye-opening studies about porn, and then I dropped it, knowing I would post about it here later. Later highlights of the conversation included a defense of violent “gangbang” porn, including the claim that porn isn’t rape, because consent is implied in pornography. To be clear, this actually follows a sentence about liking the “gangbang action” in porn. If anything, the very premise of scenes like this is that there is no consent, and that is supposedly part of the thrill. I don’t understand the line of thinking here about consent being implied simply because it’s being filmed.
As I write this, I’m a little disappointed that I dropped out of the conversation, but at the same time, it just feels so profoundly hopeless. Pornography is such a divisive issue in feminism, and it’s very rare that I have a productive conversation about pornography with someone who supports pornography. I think this situation was especially hopeless, as the very first messages involved name-calling and hostility. I am tired of getting that hateful feeling in the pit of my stomach that precedes a vitriolic argument with someone who makes no bones about not respecting my opinion.
This also brings up some of my problems with the issues of men and feminism. Privileging women as the only true feminists makes it seem like I’m supposed to feel more affinity, at least in some sense, with a woman who supports pornography than with a man who has spent his life working against it. That really doesn’t sit well with me.
Sidenote: For an excellent book about the oppression of women throughout catholic and christian history, see Matilda Joslyn Gage’s Woman, Church and State. It was written in 1893, and is unbelievably radical.
Also, while I’m conflicted about discussing happenings on a private listserv here, this person has published online in public forums about her feelings on pornography, so I think it is a less egregious infraction than if she was very private about her feelings.
pornography embodies a lot of themes of catholic (and christian) history: hatred of women, the appropriation of women’s wealth, humiliation of women and the destruction of women’s bodies (just to name a few)…
damn! i need to remember that for future reference.
i’ve found myself in this discussion recently more and more. it is tiring, to say the least. i think its interesting – that her response to you was the same i got from you know who that evening of the party – except i was an evangelical. go figure. about a week ago, this topic came up in a forum that turned into a major shit storm. two women piped up to say they like watching porn and re-enacting it with their boyfriends. ewwww. and the rest of the responses came from several men in the group that had plenty of pre-assumed ideas about who i was and what i was saying – i spent most of the time trying to combat that alone – the putting of words and thoughts into my mouth, not to mention the snide “simmer down little girl” comments that kept popping up. and you’re spot on. it is profoundly difficult to have that conversation.
i’m thinking about what you said in regards to feeling more of an affinity with a man who has made his life’s work to be that of going against the grain in the realm of porn – as opposed to a feminist that is clearly pro- porn… a quandry indeed. i find myself being torn with this in political races too. am to vote for a woman just because she’s a woman, even if i don’t agree with her politics?
and rest easy about relaying the discussion – it isn’t as if you printed her name address and vital statistics for the world to see.
hey did you meet with my friend? how was the conference? can you write a post about it?
The conference was fantastic. I tried to meet up with your friend, but I couldn’t spot her (she just emailed me a description). I will be blogging about the conference, but I have to catch up on some school work first. I might not get a chance until this weekend.
Hello,
Just came across your blog. I’m Catholic and was curious if you could give me some examples of what you called: “hatred of women, the appropriation of women’s wealth, humiliation of women and the destruction of women’s bodies.”
I’m well aware that some feminists oppose the Catholic Church on abortion, birth control and the ordination of women, but the particular accusations in your blog appear unwarranted.
Thank you, I appreciate your time!
Hello,
I am not sure whether I should be here as a male. But somehow I came to this site.
As a male I accept porn, because
- accepting liberal laws, porn is just something that turns up.
Less liberal laws would create a less liberal society.
- there is a competitive aspect: women try to control male
sexuality, and porn seems to be a tool how males can escape
from this. But this is true only in symbolic space. In reality
selling porn is more like selling frustration.
- may be there is sometimes something like intelligent porn.
Laws would not be able to distinguish intelligent from stupid.
- in some sense I am really primitive and like primitive erotic
signals.
As a male I do not like porn, because
- it is not really erotic. It has no secret and is therefore boring.
- you are right, porn industry is an economically designed
strategy of exploiting human feelings/desires.
- ??? Porn is a strategy to destroy the values of femininity?
Difficult question. For me as male the problem is that the
sexuality that might appear dangerous to women and the
sexuality that might make me to like women is the same
sexuality.
human feelings/desires. This is a difficult point. Because women are defined by their feelings, and males are defined by their desires. So we live under different ontologies. We cannot really ever meet each other.
Ok, that was my male point of view.
If I had to make a guess, what your central sentence is, then I would choose this one:
MY ISSUE, to be clear, has to do with the sexual victimization of women …
It seems that this is something that reaches very deep into yourself. Into a region, where I cannot follow.
What I do not understand very well, is that you couple your sense of being a woman that much to pornography. The one thing is inside yourself, and the other thing is outside yourself. I think you should take a knife, not in order to castrate me, but in order to separate inside from outside.